Dennis: Hello and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I’m your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today we’re joined by Pascal Asselin from MORFO. Pascal, welcome.
Pascal: Thank you, Dennis.
Dennis: So before we go into your journey and take a little deeper there, give us a brief overview. What is MORFO and what are you doing there?
Pascal: So, the idea of MORFO is to restore forest ecosystems and to do it at scale. Meaning, we have to plant these forests and then not planting trees, which is something important and I think we’ll We’ll dig into it. That’s restoring these ecosystems, meaning restoring biodiversity, thinking about the local communities that could live around, but then doing it at scale. So we use Science first to understand the existence, but then different kinds of technology as drones to plants and to miniature.
Dennis: Nice. Sounds like a lot of lot of exciting technology happening and we can jump in, but let’s rewind a little bit first. What did you do before starting Mofo? What’s your background?
Pascal: My background is from the very beginning since it has a link with MoFo today. Mhmm. So I was born in French Guiana, which is just over Brazil for those who who don’t know it. Small small departments. Then in Cannes in the south of France, then back in in French Guiana for 4 more years and back in Cannes. Then I studied in Paris and in Lyon, A small, small 6 months in Myanmar, which is absolutely amazing to work there. And then I started the 1st company at the end of my studies. I was still a student, It was completely about another topic.
Pascal: It’s it was like a legal tech, automating many like paper juridic legal things in France to to help entrepreneurs on their journey. So instead of having a lawyer doing these simple things which represent quite like 80% 80% of the market, I was automating all these parts, helping the lawyers, helping the entrepreneurs. And so, yeah, I So
Dennis: there are a few exciting parts already in. 1, you already have some entrepreneurial experience with building a company and selling it. And the other part, which I’m pretty sure might be interesting for your story as well, is where you’re born and the background were French Guina. And, well, basically, you already had to look into what happens with the trees and the ecosystem there. Walk us along the journey a little more. So when did the idea to to start Morpher, when did it first come around? And were there any issues? Any problems you experienced along the way as well?
Pascal: Yes, this that’s why I mentioned it at the very beginning because it started with, like, more on our father’s story, idea hour because we’re 3 cofounders. There’s Adrian who is a friend, yeah, from my studies And Hugo, who is my brother. So that’s why I say our father, like, he was working with a great link with the forest in French Guiana. And so we grew up with this idea that he was like sharing with us in this conviction that we need in our generation to restore this forest. There is a great damage that is being done to all these soils and all these forests, and it will have an impact in the future. So he had this quite a vision that he was sharing it with us when we were like 3 years old, 5 years old. Mhmm. And that’s we, you know, we we traveled a lot in the forest in French Guiana.
Pascal: It’s the Amazon rainforest. So, you know, we we grew up in it. That’s the 1st link we really had. And so we had this idea in like, you know, in the back office of the brain that it was still working. And Ygos, my brother, went to work in France, Guiana on How to restore this like forest ecosystems that were degraded by usually human activities and some industry, some industries too. And where you have some degraded lands, which really degraded. So the first wouldn’t grow by itself. Mhmm.
Pascal: And so that’s where we’re like, okay, there’s once we cool we could cool a pain, but it’s like As for humans, as for, animals, but as well as more on the on on the environmental aspects. And so how can we restore these lands that have been degraded? And Taking a step back, we saw that it was not like 5,000 hectares that we were seeing in France Guiana. It’s 900,000,000 in the world’s Mhmm. Lens that are degraded and that can be restored without impacting human activities, meaning mainly agriculture. Mhmm. And so we’re like, okay, there’s this Huge amounts of, hectares to be restored in a short time if we want to to work in this, let’s say, climate emergencies, without digging into it. So how can we be first in the good quality to restore these ecosystems so that in a 100 years, our forests will still be there. But how can we scale these operations? How can we make it happen faster? And so that’s all where it came and that’s what we are doing now and we have already a great a great amount of of projects Since we have restored already 600 hectares, which is really small compared to our objectives of like restoring 100,000,000 hectares by, 30 years.
Pascal: As you know, it’s really like great milestones because we’ve made these things. We know what’s working. We know what’s less working. And so we can already improve. And Our drones allow to restore 50 hectares per day compared to traditional methods when you restore 0.5 hectares per day planting trees.
Pascal: And so there’s already this great gap That can make you think that we can reach the scale of impact that we want. And so, you know, that’s really exciting. First, that’s what we’ve done already in, like, less than 3 years, but what we have to do in the next 30 years.
Dennis: A few miles since you’ve already been on the journey. From when you were 3 years old growing up and seeing the rainforest developing to having your brother, Hugo, working in the rainforest later on. And now you’re ready to jump on, okay, let’s do something. Let’s restore it. When did the idea become concrete? You mentioned that already from your childhood. Basically, you knew there was a problem. We need to take a 1st concrete step to eventually start with Morfo.
Pascal: I would say in terms of dates, it was like early 2021. Since Hugo came back, She’s working from French Guiana for Christmas and then we talk about it. And we’re like, okay, more than an idea now. We should make it real. We should make it concrete. So, you know, we started really working on what should we do to make this happen. So meaning, okay, we need science if we want to make it right, But we need operations but we need to address the markets so that’s like our vision is that we need to use the actual economic systems to have the greatest impact. Meaning, being a company, meaning Finding regulatory issues or compliances that would make some people pay for this.
Pascal: So that’s our objective is to be paid for that But then reinvest in science, reinvest in projects, reinvest in nature. So that we create this kind of future circle around nature, around forests. And so, yes. We just like pointed out what should we do to restore these ecosystems at scale. And so I think that was the very, very first moment. And I would say the 2nd moment when it started actually. So the creation of Mautho, which was in May 2021, was when we signed a partnership With IRD, which is like the R and D institute in France. And we started these partnerships, which was like the the kickstart of the company.
Pascal: So okay, we need to to start these programs because we knew exactly what we need to restart these these ecosystems and 6 months later, we were restoring our 1st like 50 hectares in French Guiana.
Dennis: How did the initial step go then? So basically at the beginning of 2021 you had the idea. In May you already signed the 1st R and D contracts. What did happen in between to make it really concrete to get it started? And at what point in time did the idea come in place to use drones and AI for that?
Pascal: At the very beginning, our job was like to understand the markets. So where it is, how does it work? It gets more into like Scientific concepts and theories and public paper the scientific papers. So we really, like, got into it. Mhmm. Just put the hands in the mud and, like, Made it, like, happen. Same for, like, business plan. Same for, like, the vision we wanted to give. What was the the real objective of the company? And so, you know, all the pieces were started to being assembled and to look like a company.
Pascal: And so that’s why in May, like, everything of of that were the first pieces, like, let’s say the The 1st layer or like the, the Siemens of the company that could allow us to start and to kick start. And as far as the drone and the AI, the, the very first idea was, you know, in the concept of What we wanted to do, first, restore systems then do it at scale. And so, you know, there was so many experiments with planes, with helicopters, with like flying machines. They were not like The good ones for this kind of operations. And drones is a tool that is being, like, really developed over the last years. It’s not that all but for different use No use cases, let’s say. And so we we worked on that to understand how could it fit. It’s really great, you know, because in terms of logistics, you have your box for the drone, which is Quite big, but it’s just a box.
Pascal: Then you just need the seeds and the raw materials for our seed pods and then that’s it. In terms of Logistics, when you want to make this project, but when you want to increase the scale, this is already amazing. But then the drones can allow you to plan faster, more efficiently and accurately, and in full security, Which is not a detail when you are in the field. Mhmm. But the drone, apart from plantation, which is already amazing, the other thing is that you can use other drones for analysis. Meaning, having this high resolution that can help you to understand before the project, how does it look like? What does the context look like? And then when you start monitoring, you can have this Precise imagery to understand what’s happening on the 1st growth of the forest. Because, you know, you don’t have a tree in 1 year. You have, like, The seedlings, then you have like a small tree and then it grows and you need to understand that every part, what’s happening there.
Pascal: And so drones using AI to, you know, understand what’s happening on the on the field can help us understand what we do, understand what’s working on what’s not working and show to our stakeholders like partners, clients, etcetera, What’s really happening on the field and displaying it into a dashboard?
Dennis: Beautiful. So you already mentioned like the basically the advantage of using Tron. Not just that you can easily reach all of these areas but then you also have this box full of seats and you can have an image Of the area that you might otherwise not have been able to capture. When you walk through the project, let’s just We could go into a recent example. You have a project in Rio, if I’m not mistaken here. Walk us through this project. How would that start and how would that develop over time.
Pascal: Yeah. Sure. So the very first step of every project is to understand where we’ll be working And so, what’s there? So we do this very first part of diagnostic, talking to the people around and making a soil analysis, passing this drone. And then from that, Switching to the 2nd step in between is what we call the smart planting. And so it’s developing the plantation scheme on what we’ll plant, When we’ll plant, where we’ll plant, and how we’ll and so, you know, it’s like everything. This can seem to be quite simple, but when you dig into it, And we have, like, 250 species in our catalog that we’ve studied and everything. Then you need to to choose the right ones, working with the right ones, I had the right moment and because we work closely with nature. So it’s really seasonal.
Pascal: And as we can see this climate change which causes disturbances in the seasons, That’s another challenge we have. But then that’s what we do at the 2nd place, like, prepare this kind of smart planting, as we call it. Mhmm. Then the 2nd phase is plantation. Going on the field, Having these rooms flying, planting everything. And then that’s the the, like, you know, the, let’s say, the the very first moment where the the force will grow. And after, we have this 3rd step that can last over many years. So for now between like 5 to 12 years as we are monitoring.
Pascal: We are monitoring with a drone, the NRCs drone and and this dashboard that we have with All the machine learning behind to make sure that the forest is actually growing and how it’s growing. And to share that with the people we work with.
Dennis: It sounds like a really beautiful approach. Because it’s not just like you go in, you cultivate a tree, you plant it, but it’s more like a more holistic approach of choosing different kind of what kind of trees, what kind of species would grow best And then basically letting the forest decide with the seeds what’s happening, what’s growing, but then also continuously monitoring.
Pascal: Yeah. Exactly. And that that’s even something really important and that that’s what I I was mentioning in the very beginning. It’s like we never say we plant trees. That’s why we always say we restore forest ecosystems because in this, species we plant, there’s like herbaceous, legumes.
Pascal: Like small trees, bushes, Trees. And all these constitutes like the the forest ecosystems and we work mainly for now in tropical areas. And when you go in this kind of native forest, You cannot really walk walk into it. It’s so messy. You have, like, things everywhere, and that’s what we want to do is, like, reproduce how this native forest That’s really like be like the old forest within like 20 to 30 years. And so that’s really important to think it’s about an ecosystem. So having this Holistic approach on the project not to forget anything. So, yeah, that’s really the key point of Moftel.
Dennis: Beautiful. Is that So something that came from the research papers and all the science that you studied initially when you figured out you want to do something. What is the best approach that you figured out? Okay. Instead of planting trees, Let’s just restore the ecosystem.
Pascal: Yeah. Exact I think this part is kind of not tactics that’s, you know, a kind of philosophy of how we see the forest. Because, you know, there there’s many projects doing like planting trees or, I don’t know, people are doing city culture. These are things that are essential. Mhmm. We need that too. But how we approach the forest Well, this is like 100 persons, let’s say organic way and like natural things to see how can we collaborate with nature to make this happen. So thinking about biodiversity and communities because they are the base of everything.
Pascal: So, yeah, that’s you see some concepts in science And then you you I think you apply principles, like kind of personal principles from the founders and kind of philosophy on how we see, what’s our vision for the forest, For the world mainly. And then that’s the disease that I find. Found absolutely amazing. Missing like science based company but with this Operational field operations. You know, it’s like really something. Field operations but being a company, it’s like something working together and having all these people from so many different backgrounds Same company with the same mission. It makes something super insane. I love it.
Dennis: Nice. You already mentioned the vision and the mission. Before jumping into that part, What have been some of the biggest challenges along your way? And I’m also asking kind of like twofold challenges. I would assume, 1, because you have a different, distinctive approach on restoring forests. Was there any communication challenges along the way to convince Municipalities or NGOs or anyone else you partner with to get on board with this instead of planting trees? And the second thing, was there anything from the technology Sight that you’ll remember as one of the big challenges.
Pascal: So I think about the first challenge you mentioned, it’s it’s actually something that we are currently like, Let’s say facing or, yeah, it’s part of our away but you approach with a new technology, a new way of seeing forest restoration and even new way of seeing forests. So you have this all these traditional actors that have been made like that where they’re doing an amazing job for now like 15 to 20 years. And you just come with a new scientific and, like, operational approach. And so you knew you always have this it’s I think it’s all the same. It’s always the same for startups and and new companies innovating, but you have this kind of early adopters, pioneers that will look into it directly and saying, okay, I love the concepts. We have to try. Then you have this like People waiting to see if it’s it’s working. And then you have 2 people like say, okay, it won’t work.
Pascal: I don’t believe in their approach. So you always have this like kind of [Pascal} So, the people we are talking today are these pioneers. They’re like, okay, I believe that’s what you’re doing. Backed. And that’s really important. Backed by scientific. Because all the scientific where we’re working back us. Because it fits with their approach, with the way they see.
Pascal: For us, with what they developed in their, research programs. And so that’s really like what makes us, like, Seeing that our approach is a good one. Not the good one, but is a good one. So, I would say this is a challenge that we face and that we will face. But along the way, you have more and more people convinced about what we do. But contrary to this, on the media and the communication, that’s more attracting media. They are more interested than, Okay. There’s a drone planting for us.
Pascal: You know, just this, like always the headline that what’s happening? Is it working? Should is it a good idea? And so this is more like Curiosity from the media and from the journalists about this topic that, you know, a fear. So that was more like cool for us. And then the 2nd question, of course, as we are, like, developing a technology that we can’t find on the market, we have to either innovate on some parts, either Invent on other parts. Mhmm. So of course, there are great risks. That’s what we are doing, like so much science and experiments, making sure that in the labs it’s working, then In the field, it’s working then making at scale. But I think this is the challenge to honestly will still have in 10 years. So, yes, it is 1 and yes, we still have it.
Dennis: Nice. So it’s never getting boring, no?
Pascal: Never. Never. Even on the weekends.
Dennis: I know that feeling. But at the same time, it’s also Like, once you have a dedication for something you really want to change something, it’s not I would assume for you, it doesn’t feel like you’re working on a job. It feels more like you’re working on a mission because you really want to Improve the world and make a positive impact. So it’s a completely different mindset shift.
Pascal: Exactly. And I think that’s something we want to share within the team as well Because sometimes you see you can say, okay, it’s easier for you as you’re the founder of the company. But that’s really, like, something we want to share with the team and we’ve we’ve made some some surveys recently. And people are, like, it’s I think it was 9.5 of 10 passionate about the mission. You know, they are all here for the mission, for the vision, for the passion of their jobs. And so, you know, that was really amazing. So okay, I’m not the only one in the company. Like they are all absolutely like amazed at what we are doing and they are on a mission too.
Dennis: I feel like that’s super critical. Also for us, just like a little little bit of detail before we go back to you. Sorry. Whenever we look into hiring a new person to help us in the organization, we always have like the 1st screening questions like what are you most interested And if the answer is not that they’re passionate about the topic, then we don’t even go any further. Because it’s most important for us that people identify with our values, with our passions to World Traf for a positive change. That being said, you already mentioned 5, 10 plans and that there might still be challenges. You already mentioned like the kind of mission. Give us an outlook.
Dennis: How do you see the future of MORFO and what are your plans?
Pascal: So I think that we’ve again, like, next last year, kick start and put the cement of our growth for the next 5 years, I would say 3 to 5 years. Meaning that we opened our labs. We’re working it. We make them bigger. Now we make new experiments and we scale this first experiment that, were a success. So this is like one challenge and one thing that we will Still be doing again in, like, 10, 15 years. I think everything, like, in the structure of the company that we’ve started will just grow bigger, but will still look the same Without never being the same, that’s what’s exciting. So we we have, like, experiments that will be be ongoing.
Pascal: We’ll have projects, and I think that the main objective that all teams at Mafo have is like, okay, we need to restore our 1st 1000000 hectares of ecosystem or 1st 1000000 hectares of ecosystems within 10 years. And so, you know, Saying that everybody in the company is concerned. So first, how can we have everything in place so that the field operations people will be able to deploy? But then when you’re In the field operations, will our industrialization be ready for that? And will we be ready for that? Will we be trained? Will we be enough people to do that? Then you have the salespeople, of course, that we’ll have to to find the partners and and the customers for this project. For the data, of course, just in terms of the size of the data, we’ll have It’s amazing in amazingly big and how to process them to have the integrating. So everybody is concerned in this objective of, okay, reaching this 1,000,000 hectares Like, under 10 years. So, yeah, I would say that everything will be the same but getting bigger to to to reach this.
Dennis: Yeah. No. I also love it how So the basically, the goal is just to restore a specific amount of 1,000,000 hectares, which is a beautiful goal. You also mentioned Like one of the parts is reaching partners. What are your current partners? I know from the municipality of Rio. What other partners do you have or what other partners are you looking into?
Pascal: So we have 2 kinds of partners or it’s between like partners and customers. We have one part of what we call the compliance partners which are companies, industries That have regulations that imply them to restore a system that they have degraded in their activity.
Pascal: So that’s like one of the markets. In this compliance market, you have Yeah. No. It’s the same, the compliance of their common point. And then you have the voluntary market. Meaning, governments, collectivities, town halls Like Rio, that have programs for reforestation. And so we work with them. Usually, like we are we provide the technology and the techniques, the science to make this happen.
Pascal: We have as well some NGO that we partner with usually in the project. If we develop a project, we always like reserve 10 to 20% For traditional methods they are using like they know the people, they know the place. So we know that it’s going to be working and so we are in really like Collaboration with these local communities or local associations. And the last 1 would be like what we call the carbon market which was carbon project developers. So their objective is to sell the carbon credits from reforestation and biodiversity and we work with them to make this happen. Meaning you have so many lands That’s already to be researched. You have many investments that are occurring on on this market, but how to make this 2 happen so that you have money that is going actually like There there are €1,000,000. How can, like, each euro can go into, let’s say, a tree or lens? And so that’s what we do and that’s how we partner with.
Pascal: So compliance markets and voluntary markets.
Dennis: Nice. It’s also a beautiful transition into like for anyone watching and viewing us now. How could we best support you along your journey?
Pascal: I think that one easy thing would be to just like we create a lot of content either written context like articles that are they are like really like creates articles that are like written in our team. And so if you want to discover, like, It’s really interesting to get to understand really the the topic in detail. But I think as we create content in LinkedIn, in Instagram too, I think just support, follow us, Support, like, share. It’s always great to expand our community. And even we have, like, an amazing newsletter, monthly newsletter to give news about what we do, Give us images, videos of what’s happening. So, yeah, be sure to to follow as well. It’s great to your support.
Dennis: Nice. So we put all the links into the show notes and also on the podcast page. So for all the audience who follow and if there’s any organizations as well listening, please reach out to MORFO as well if you feel like that could be a great fit. Now let’s make a little shift and have a look at the implication or the reflection on your personal life. How would you say since well, not Just since starting working with MORFO and founding it, but probably also from the earlier days, how has the awareness about trees and restoring the rainforest changed your personal life?
Pascal: I feel it shapes first my personal life like we’re growing into it, you know. We’re always my brother running naked in the forest as we’re like when we’re 1 or 2 So, you know, I really grew, yeah, grew up with this environment, with these ecosystems. And even today, we we see, again, the features of that and, you know, The link was from there. So I I think we shaped our personality from this, like, just living into it. And after, I would say that Today, the way understanding better all these topics from a scientific point of view, but as well from this local community’s point of view, but from our field operations point of view. I got to understand better how all these things are interconnected. You know? Mhmm. When you see a forest, you can never say that it’s the sum of trees.
Pascal: It’s really like and because it’s, know, it’s the best way to describe it, but it’s not only what you see over the soil, over the soil, but what’s into the soils, all these, like, Some guys that are working together in into the roofs, the mushrooms you can see. So, I think it’s just a way, like, even I I already conceived it And I see the company we have today. You know, it’s an ecosystem. You have people with strengths. They have weaknesses, of course. And you cannot shape your company with this pyramid. You just need, like, People in, let’s say, using is not a good word, using, but laying on their qualities and their strengths to build this company altogether and, yeah, they’re developing it. And I think, like, When you imagine and you see the world like that, it shapes your mind differently.
Pascal: So I really like it.
Dennis: Nice. Now, let’s already jump into the final question. If you had one tip for us to become more impactful, what would be your number one tip be?
Pascal: It might be what I just said About, the considering, like, everything as an ecosystems. And when you just, like, cut the tree, you might think that it’s just a tree in a in a forest, but It will have an impact on many other things around, and I feel it’s the same around us, around you, inside the companies, but, like, in our daily lives too. So, yeah, that might be, like, understanding that we’re just not, like, a son of individualities that’s just, like, everything is, interconnected.
Dennis: Nice. Well, Pascal. Thanks. Thanks so much for joining us today. And thanks so much for all the great work you’re doing with MORFO.
Pascal: Thank you, Dennis. It was great to see you.
Dennis: And to everyone else, thanks so much for joining us as well. And stay impactful.
