How Made-to-Measure Bras Sustainably Empower Women: Bryn Williams and Jess Bosman from DOUBL (#3)
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Have you ever wondered how the clothes you wear not just make an impact on the planet but also how you feel about yourself and your body? Well, then you’ll enjoy our conversation with Bryn and Jess from DOUBL!
“It’s an industry that hasn’t developed in over 100 years, and the current sizing model only considers two horizontal measurements. So it leaves out a huge percentage of women on the extremities and also women who don’t fall into these 2-inch increments, like sizing range currently.”Jess Bosman, DOUBL
Three Key Points From This Episode
How Bryn and Jess are empowering women with custom-made bras…
How their on-demand and made-to-measure production creates more sustainable products…
How they are revolutionizing the whole bra market…
About Bryn Williams
Bryn is the co-founder of DOUBL as well as a graduate of the Ivey School of Business, where she earned a degree in Honours Business Administration, and Western University, where she earned an Honours Specialization in Psychology. She co-founded DOUBL while working at Unilever across a number of sales and marketing roles.
About Jess Bosman
Jess is the co-founder of DOUBL as well as a graduate of the Ivey School of Business, where she earned a degree in Honours Business Administration, and Western University, where she earned a DAN Management and Organizational Studies. She co-founded DOUBL with various industry experiences from SSENSE, to the Mountain Company, to Herschel (where she currently is a Senior Merchant).
DOUBL was founded to provide women with a sustainable solution to getting a bra that fits. Their fabrics are sourced from North American suppliers and rather than relying on petroleum to produce conventional polyester, they use Recycled Polyester (rPet) made from post-consumer plastic waste, including plastic bottles diverted from landfills. In addition, they make each bra on demand and don’t have inventory waste that many companies struggle with.
Links and Additional Information Discussed
Check out the current selection of made-to-measure and made-to-order bras at DOUBL and sign up for their restock alerts as well as to get notified when they fully launch
Get inspired by their innovative made-to-measure approach and how quick and easy you could get your right measurements too
The Full Transcript
Dennis: Hello, and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I’m your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today, we are joined by Bryn Williams and Jess Bossman from DOUBLe. Bryn, Jess. Welcome.
Bryn: Thanks for having us. Well,
Dennis: thanks for being there. I’m super excited. It’s the first time to be having a podcast Two guests. Nice. So before we’re getting into it and telling your journey, tell us a little bit about double what is and kind of like a big picture for for all of us.
Bryn: Yeah. So DOUBL is the first ever made-to-measure bra that you can order completely online. So you buy the way you buy anything else on ecommerce, but it’s made direct exactly to your measurements.
Jess: And the main purpose behind the company is the fact that we wanted to empower women to feel comfortable — role in their everyday lives and allow them to be capable of doing anything that they wanna do because we saw a huge correlation in our research that when women are physically uncomfortable. When when anyone’s physically uncomfortable, it affects other areas of your lives. You lean in less often. You raise your hand less often. you ask for less opportunity, and we really felt passionately about that not being a barrier for women any longer.
Dennis: Awesome. So it sounds like a twofold thing as, like, on the one hand, women’s empowerment. And on the other hand, also when you’re making your brass mates, well, basically, to winter, want their order to ship them out, cutting down on any kind of waste from from items that would never get shipped out otherwise.
Bryn: Yeah. Exactly.
Dennis: Sweet. Now let’s let’s go back a little bit and enter kind of seeing how how the journey and everything started, let’s get started with what’s your what’s your back story? What did you do before, well, starting with double?
Jess: Yeah. That’s a great question. You go ahead, friend.
Bryn: Just the name of the business school. So we were in the same section that I be in our 1st year of business school, and we bonded on a trip to Yale University where we were doing a conference on women’s leadership. And we both had always been interested in starting our own business and charting our our own path, and we work together on a project in 2nd year around a new venture creation. And that’s kind of where the initial idea for a make to measure bra that could be ordered online came from. Mhmm. But we both went our separate ways into our careers kind of leading that you know, at school. And I joined Unilever as a in brand manager ment and specifically Unilever because they had a bit more of a sustainability agenda than a lot of the other CPG companies did at the time. So I’ve been working there for the last 5 years, and then I’ll pass it over to Jess to tell her backstory.
Jess: Yeah. So I’ve always had a really strong interest in fashion. So after business school, I started my career at SSENSE, and I was in the buying department. And that’s sort of where my love profession and understanding the industry sort of snowballed. And then most recently, I’ve also had experience at NEC, mountain equipment, co Vancouver as well as Herschel. So that whole entire, like, buying, merchandising, seeing products being brought to life from a to zed assortment planning has been my background.
Dennis: Nice. It’s a little bit of a business background combined with some, like, modern fashion or, like, basically, from the industry.
Jess: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We feel that we have complimentary skills in that way. We’re just missing our our technical our technical right hand man.
Dennis: Awesome. Yeah. I’m so excited. I to prem refined already that I also have an IV connection that my exchange, I must say my muscles over there. So it’s quite exciting to speak to to my IV people. Oh, that’s so great. Now then let’s switch a little bit from from your background to well, what was the the actual problem that you encountered on your way before basically getting started. What was it that that well, check out it.
Jess: Yeah. So when we were thinking of ideas, we were looking mainly at in — trees that hadn’t had any innovation for a very long time as well as thinking about personal problems that we had experienced. So That led us as a group of women to looking at our bras. It’s an industry that hasn’t developed in over a 100 years, and the current sizing model only takes them to consider and 2 horizontal measurements. So it leaves out a huge percentage of women on the extremities and also women who don’t fall into the like, 2 inch increments, like, sizing range currently. So right now, all of the sizes are basically dispersed by 2 inches. So there’s lots of women outside of that ratio. So we’re finding that so many people can’t find the right support. So many people are left uncomfortable. So many people are left feeling that there’s something wrong with their bodies rather than something wrong with the retail system. So that’s sort of the main the main like, place where the concept came from.
Bryn: And then just to add to that eTouch and it already, Dennis. Right? But this I idea of we’re living in a fast fashion world. Yeah. And it’s not sustainable in the long run for for people to be buying at such high consumption levels and discarding items so quickly. So we also wanted to try to create a business that had a pause impact and kind of this new way and new model of manufacturing so that — Mhmm. — you know, people can get a product that works for them, but also we’re you know, building something that can be sustainable for decades to come.
Dennis: Awesome. So, basically, it sounds like you you were already with your mindset that you wanted to start something. then you encountered some problems either from yourself or from some other friends. You figured out like there’s a whole industry about the brass that’s kind of a little bit messed up. 1 of the measurements and the second thing is with how it’s being manufactured, took that along the way, and now here we are.
Jess: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think it’s also been really interesting to just follow the industry over the years. So when Brit and I officially incorporated the business and started working on it, That was 3 years ago. So we had some work experience by then. And in, like, my personal experience in the fashion industry, there was such a shift from, like, when I had graduated Not many people were speaking about sustainability. It wasn’t at the forefront. And then when we had started and fast forward to now as well, there’s such a strong focus on sustainability and how every player in the ecosystem really matters and change really does have to start at the top or at the consumer level. But every single person, if it’s your raw material supplier, if it’s your your manufacturer, if it’s your shipping materials, like your packaging, whatever it is, you have that that decision to make every step of the way. And there’s multiple players that really need to be pushing to make the right decision in order for the entire, like, logistics and ecosystem to be sustainable. it’s been really wonderful seeing some companies really make these huge efforts in their vendor manuals or whether it be you know, hiring a third party consulting firms to ensure that they’re reducing their carbon footprint and making those decisions, and that consumer also demanding it as well. So that’s something we’ve really brought into double and ensured that we’re working with largely sustainable partners and looking for consumers that really have that chair as well.
Dennis: Amazing. Now that’s something that’s that’s really nice to notice actually after the past of years how much sustainability has become more and more to the forefront, like slowly changing from, like, some companies have it to more and more to merely becoming like a must for. for companies to survive, which is amazing. Now before we’re going into I would love to to hear so much more about, like, all the sustainability measures that you that you may I’m doing at DOUBL. Let’s take one step back. So basically, from your background, before we jump in, what was the concrete first starting point? You mentioned already is, like, 3 years ago, but what was, like, the concrete first step for you?
Bryn: Yeah. So I’d say it it happened more like, a slide than, like, a concrete step for us at least because we’ve had this idea for so long, and we’re best friends. So every time we would meet, we would talk about it. But the, like, official beginning was when we decided to incorporate. So we hired a legal team, and we did an official incorporation. and that was in in July of 2020. And — Mhmm. — not all businesses have to incorporate from the beginning. Right? It just for us, it was important because when you look at grants, and, you know, down the road from a funding perspective. Sometimes you have to have incorporated for a couple years. It also meant because there’s two of us from a shareholder agreement perspective, we were just getting everything clean and ready to go from the beginning. So — Mhmm. — that was the business concrete step was, you know, making deciding to incorporate. But then from the product initial step, It was for us as a product, it’s all about getting a minimum viable product, right, your MVP. So the first step we did there, which was such a a you know, starting a new business. First step was we went on Upwork, went those freelance sites, and we tried to find a pattern maker who could make a bra for us. And we paid somebody to make kind of our first prototype, and it was horrible. Like,
Dennis: we we refer to it as — To mean a great learning experience?
Bryn: Yeah. But the broad self was not functional. Like, we refer to that prototype as our, like, boob hammock. Like, there was no support at all. So Those were, I think, the 2 first big business steps where we incorporated, and then we made our first
Dennis: prototype, which is never supposed be great, but ours is particularly bad. That’s a good starting point. What came first, the incorporation or the prototype?
Bryn: The incorporation.
Dennis: Oh, wow. Business school, no?
Bryn: Yeah. Exactly.
Dennis: Nice. And then from the first prototype, it’s I mean, amazing to take the first step. A lot of people have the idea in mind and they never take the first step. But once you have something concrete, it’s super easy to feel like, how can this be improved here or there. So what was the what was the next step? So, yeah, how did you go from the boob hammock, the bra Hemock? How did you go the next steps there to more basically improve it.
Jess: Yeah. I would say it’s been a journey of baby steps. It was such a huge learning curve. And despite having some industry experience. It was so yeah. It was so interesting learning about, like, we had less neither of us had a lot of experience — development side. So it was learning about how complicated this project was. Like, the breast is one of the most difficult areas of the whole body to bits because, you know, the volume is DOUBL. And everyone has a different shape and different size and different weight and — people in different need states. So it was, yeah, it was definitely very challenging. So we were learning about who we even needed that there was differences between designers and developers and and pattern makers. So finding the right people, and it took a very long time, I would say, to find people that were specialized in the right areas who are also really good fits for the company, who felt really passionately about our story, And then just kind of slowly putting one foot in front of the other finding manufacturers that we’re willing to work with a startup that uses on demand manufacturing where you’re not placing these, like, large bulk orders very much in advance. So not everyone is excited to be working with a business like that. And we’re very fortunate in that we found a really wonderful manufacturer who is really passionate about our idea. But, yeah, it was totally baby steps, I would say, really until The last 6 months have we completely figured it out, and we have such a wonderful team. But, yeah, it was a very, very long learning
Dennis: Oh, wow. How many iterations if you had to guess where in between, like, the starting 3 years ago to having the first functional product last 6 months?
Bryn: I wanna say close to to 10 probably — Mhmm. — in terms of, like, net new prototypes with, like, a new design or you know, slight slight alterations. I think, yeah, I think close to 10.
Jess: Yeah. That’s probably right.
Dennis: Mhmm. 10 prototypes and two and a half years later. It’s amazing what these iterations can do to a product. No? Yeah. And lots of sampling in between there. You already mentioned tests that it was quite difficult finding the right factory, finding the right producer for for product in the end that will produce it on the mind as well. What were your steps on on getting this? Also then in connection with keeping the product sustainable as well.
Bryn: I did the Western Accelerator at the beginning of this year. And so one of my big goals of that accelerator was to find the right factory for us, and we wanted to keep the the manufacturing if possible in Canada. Because, you know, when you’re closer to the product, you can better assess whether, you know, quality from the product side, but I’ll So whether the factory is following, you know, industry standards from an ethical perspective and knowing that people are being paid a living wage all was important to us. So we kept our our scope to Canada. And then we you know, it was honestly as as simple as glang factories that existed. But I was in that London Ontario ecosystem, and I kept meeting people, and they kept telling me about this amazing designer named, who had started a factory a few years ago to make PPE. And now, you know, with the need for PPE decreasing kind of, you know, post the height of the pandemic had turned her factory into more of a manufacturing for fashion products. So I reached out to her directly, and and it was such a great fit because Carmina is is has always been interested in sustainability. So her clothing line is a sustainable women’s clothing line, Curmina Young. And then her factory uses all of those sustainable prints as well. So they don’t throw out any scraps from any of the materials they use. They look to figure out new ways to use those materials including working with different like, not for graphics in the local area. And she also employs you know, people paying them a a living wage. And it’s always kind of looking for new ways to to have that sustainable impact. So she was a great fit for us. Also, the fact that it was a women owned factory was important as well.
Dennis: Nice. So it’s basically you already with this fact, you already have, like, the 2 big parts as one ensuring that there’s no material waste. And the second thing is that people be getting paid the living wage. or even I think I’ve seen on your on your websites even well above the living wage, not just the basic minimum. No?
Bryn: Yeah. Because, especially for bras, you need people who have a lot of technical expertise. Right? these aren’t aren’t junior sewers. They’re, you know, quite high and and paid for the skill that they have. Nice.
Dennis: And from the materials itself, did you decipher like, based on the on the browser, when you’re designing it, it’s like, okay. Let’s let’s get the graph first and see, like, what fits best there, or did you already have, like, the sustainability in mind? Okay. When we design it, let’s cut out these materials and only try to use the sustainable ones.
Jess: Yeah. That’s a great question. We try to use as many sustainable materials as possible while also balancing cost a little bit because, obviously, we have pretty high cost being on demand and then also trying to be as sustainable as possible. But the majority of our bra is made out of 1st cycle polyester, which is really great. So I would say Probably at least 80% is recycled materials. And we also use the majority of our fabric comes from, like, a BC based supplier, which is really great. So we tried to work locally again, and they’ve been a really great partner for us. And then for our packaging, we also use recycled bubble mailers and shipping locally, obviously, is one of the best ways to reduce your carbon emissions because flying items through Cross Country over with planes and overseas is one of the, you know, the largest sustainable measures, I would say.
Bryn: Yeah. So to dye our our fabric, we use sublimation. Oh, yeah. And sublimation is a heat transfer printing. And the reason that that is so sustainable is that, like, traditional dying is you would die. You know? You have water that is is treated with the color and then you you dye the materials. The problem with that and I no. We know this firsthand because we we did the the dyeing of our straps ourselves. is that it produces fumes, which in a non aerated place is toxic and also uses a lot of water. So by not doing the traditional dyeing methods and using this heat heat transfer printing instead, we’re cutting all of the water waste that comes with the dyeing and also we’re protecting the people who are working on on the dyeing. And it produces the same rich color that you’d get from a dye and also helps us make really nice patterns. So we have a lining that has a pattern in it, and it’s very crisp because we’ve used this sublimation. Obviously, again, it’s a bit more expensive and traditional dyeing, but those are the kinds of trade offs you make. And you hope that consumers will understand that when they look at the price point.
Dennis: So basically, if if someone was ordering a bra from your from double, they would get a locally made bra out of recycled materials. shipped in a recycled container, shipped locally, ideally, and the color that they can see is made in a dyeing process, non toxic and doesn’t use all that water that traditional process would use. Yeah. And made exactly 2 measurements. Oh, And that as well. Nice. Now that’s a that’s a good transition as well to before we look into the future and go into some of the next parts, let’s say someone wants to, well, get a bra made to their measurements, What would be the best best way to get that done, or how could they could they best reach you?
Bryn: Yes. It’s super easy. you have to do is go to our website. So www.double.ca. Right now, we’re only selling into Canada, but we’re expanding into the US in the all. And you check out just like how you would check out from any other ecommerce company so you add the product to cart. There are no sizes. so you just pick the color that you want. And then you check out. And after you check out, you’re sent an email to do your scan. So we use digital extracted measurements. So you do your in with your smartphone. There are no pictures taken. We don’t store any photos. There are no photos to begin with. We use photogrammetry, which is your silhouette. That silhouette allows us to extract a number of measurements. Those measurements go through our algorithm, and then that spits out this book individualized pattern. But from a consumer standpoint, all you do is you do your scan. It takes one minute. You just wear black tights and in clothing. You stand in in two poses all through the app. and then you get your garage delivered directly to your door.
Dennis: Amazing. So depending on when someone watches this they call it order just from in England, Canada, or most likely also within the US. Just order normally put it in the cart. They don’t even have to worry about sizes at all, get some email for all the instructions, scan their silhouette without any pictures taken, and they get the bra delivered to of the right measurements.
Bryn: Yeah. Exactly. Right now, because we’re small, we’re doing batch orders. Right? So we do, like, a preproduction sales run, and then we close off sales as we produce. So in the event that there is no stock available, we have a restock alert so people can just sign up to be notified when we’re back in stock.
Dennis: Awesome. And you mentioned already, like, in in autumn, there’s a next batch probably coming and also the opportunity to ship to the What else is? What else is some plans for the future for you?
Jess: Yeah. We’re really excited about next steps We’re going to be doing a photo shoot in the next couple of months because we have initially launched with our signature more low color that’s just, like, very beautiful, rich red. And we got a lot of feedback that people really want their neutral black and whites. So we will be offering black and white in the fall. So we’re doing another photoshoot to showcase the new colorways as well as there has been a few, like, aesthetic changes to the pattern just to offer a little bit more support and less visibility through t shirts. We really want the bra to be kind of like as seamless as possible. So we’re going to be doing a great photoshoot so people can really, really understand and see the product properly. And then we’re hoping to do a little bit of, like, an official launch party to get people a little bit more involved with the brand and get to, you know, touch and feel some of the prototypes and celebrate all of the 3 years of hard work that we’ve been doing. And then as far as, like, future future, we have a lot of really great silhouettes in the pipeline. We’re really looking to help really do an active bra for women who are a little bit more on the go as well as a nursing bra and eventually bras for, like, mastectomy and things like that. So we really want to have a very inclusive range. And, obviously, women have more than one bra in their drawer. We realize that we don’t expect our t shirt bra to fill every need. So, eventually, we’d love to tackle the strapless bra, for example. So doing kind of a plethora of bras and then eventually hopefully expanding also into underwear and professional clothing. So a lot of women struggle with, for example, buttons on button up shirts as the the buttons start to pull where their chest is. So just expanding this need to measure and fitting clothing exactly to you in multiple areas of the apparel space. And we’re also excited to hopefully do some interesting retail experience type things as we expand into brick and mortar and — Mhmm. — you know, some unusual and exciting wholesale partnerships.
Bryn: And then the other thing I’ll add is that we’re also doing our first fundraising rounds in the fall. So and we are hoping to work specifically with an impact investor. Mhmm. But, obviously, you’re also open to to other people in the investment space, but we are looking to do our our big first round, and that’s all timing.
Dennis: Amazing. So it sounds like it’s it’s a lot of lot of things going on and a lot of plans for the future. So one of the basic steps is expanding from the T ShopRat or enabling women well to basically get any kind of product, what one wants to have in addition. that perfectly fits their body, then the next step at Summit Lake is, well, going beyond the bra and offering different types of thing for a woman that would also then perfectly fit. Would that also be with the bodies, with the silhouette scan then to make it fit perfectly? Mhmm. I And then when you’re going into brick and mortar, that sounds like that will be a little challenge to make it also fit with the siloed skin.
Jess: Yeah. Yeah. What’s interesting is there is an opportunity with the technology to have a physical booth. So we’ve of, like, ideated because, obviously, we wouldn’t have a physical store with lots of product in it since we’re — Yeah. — made to measure and made on demand. So we’ve thought of really, like, unique ways of how we can have, like, a studio space and how can people feel involved in the process. And not every person is really comfortable with — technology and using their iPhone. So it’d be really wonderful if we could have that physical option as well where you walk in and you put on some tight clothing. And then actually go through the booth as your scanning process. So just offering some alternatives and also just, you know, showcasing the brand in a a very — Mhmm. — like, physical space.
Dennis: That sounds amazing. Basically, giving the people the real experience on on how that works and giving them well, ensuring them well, everything is as perfect as well of that work. Awesome. Super exciting also with the with the funding and looking into some, well, impact investment. Yeah. Now before we go into the into the next step, is there anything that I forgot to ask you or that we forgot to talk about so far a talk, Emma?
Bryn: The one thing I think because this is a video podcast, we then have the opportunity to do show and tell. So I do have a raw right here. Mhmm. So this is the color we were talking about. That’s a beautiful color. Yeah. Deepred, we call it Marlow. And you can see the way that we have the seams on the cup, which allows for a customized fit because, typically, the bra is is done using molded foam. So there’s only, you know, 4 or 5 different molded phone options. So this actually contours exactly to your body. And all of this is done with sublimation printing. And then we have this really fun pattern on the inside, again, done with sublimation printing. Mhmm. So Yeah. So this is our our final product prototype. Oh, don’t really can’t really say too much, but it looks really well done. Yeah. you. Yeah. I mean, it’s all in the fit. Right? So so the proof is in the pudding, and we’ve had some really great results from our initial beta testers. And it’s just, you know, so cool from a technology perspective that someone can do the scan, and we can send them a bra that fits them perfectly. So we’re really excited for all the things to come and all the people who we can fit a bra
Dennis: Awesome. Makes sense. Sounds super exciting as well. Like, from both perspectives, like women’s empowerment and also having an amazing product ethic in sustainably produced. Yeah. Now we will put some some links as well into the show notes and how people can find DOUBL. And let’s make a slight transition now to the next parts. So based on your journey with double, what has has personally changed for you how have you lived some some more differently based on what you figured out like from the ethics sustainability perspective or basically on the perspective on on how far should fit? Anything for your personal life that has changed?
Jess: Yeah. This is a great question. I think, Brian and I have always felt really — about shopping sustainably, whether that’s thrifting or investing into local designers and — products that are made with, like, really sustainable materials that last a very long time, and we always talk about identifying our personal style. So there’s more longevity to your clothing and you’re not just following trends. And then the bra industry is an interesting one because Not very many people buy secondhand underwear, obviously. And there’s fewer options also when you look to local designers and things like that. — and as well as those need states. So we when we were thinking about the business, it was like, how can we create this mall in the most sustainable way possible but also scalable. So I think as we just dove, like, more and more into the business, something that we’ve done a lot recently has reached out to local founders just to learn more about their story and about, you know, how they’ve brought this business to life because everyone does it differently, and it’s so great to learn from people that have gone through the process. It’s been so so helpful for us and we really appreciate everyone who’s spoken to us. And I think we’ve just, like, continued to dive deeper into that, and we’re always supporting local brands. feel like it’s almost the only thing we shop now. So I would say that’s one of the large impacts it’s had on her personal lives.
Bryn: Yeah. And I think the other thing is just understanding companies better from a sustainability perspective. Right? Because it’s, like, just alluded to earlier, there’s so many components that make up a product’s life cycle, and there’s so many opportunities for either sustainable choices or unsustainable choices at each of those, you know, junctions. And I think that’s why something like the impactful ninja is important Right? Because you dentists are doing the research for people because it’s a lot of research that needs to be done. Right? Everything from, like, we’ve experienced. Right? Like, how are the colors created for the product. Right? Like, at that very raw material stage, is the is the finished good flown to where it’s being distributed. How is it being distributed? What’s that packaging? And, you know, there’s lots of, I think, misinformation out there. Like, when we were looking into messaging. You’re looking into the standard, you know, plastic bubble mailers, and a lot of that plastic isn’t recycled in municipality. because of the different recycling rules. And so he opted for paper packaging because, you know, that that has the most the highest likelihood that people can recycle it. And so doing that research into every single step is is critical to really make sure that you’re making sustainable choices. But it’s hard work to do. Right? And that’s why — Yes. — that’s why I think it’s great that that you’re doing what you’re doing, Dennis.
Dennis: Yeah. Well, that’s a amazing, like, with everyone who I’m speaking and also from my personal experience, like, one of the first steps is always just creating awareness. And then once we are being aware about some of the things how they happen and what’s in the background. It’s so much easier to think of like, okay. If I buy something, what kind of implication does it have if it’s not local or if the packaging is not recycled, it’s plastic. So really being being able to just, like, hey. The first service, I need to know what I need to be aware about and what I then can have a look into and change
Bryn: Yeah. Amazing.
Dennis: Now let’s let’s go to the next leg of final part, basically, and When you want to share something with our viewers basically to become more more impactful, what would be your number one tip for a fewer to become more impactful based on everything that you’ve learned so far.
Jess: Yeah. That’s a really yeah. That’s a really challenging question. I think it’s going to be different for every consumer and every person depending on where you’re where your values lie. But when it comes to our industry specifically, when it comes to apparel, I think I think it’s important to look at the companies that you’re supporting. And if you can do that, like, extra little step of research, most companies will have something on their website. And if they’re truly sustainable, they’ll quite transparent. So I would say that it doesn’t take quite as much work as you think it does. Like, obviously, there’s a you can never do enough research. But if you’re just if you’re on you’re busy on a good person, I would say definitely shopping local is amazing. And then if you can, just, like, checking out the about us, the sustainable sustainability page of those websites and see what they are doing because, you know, it makes a difference every step of the way. And for these businesses that are doing their best to make sustainable choices. They are probably taking, like, smaller margins. They’re probably working really, really hard to make that impact. And, again, like we’re saying, it’s every step of way. So as a consumer, I think, Sometimes what you don’t realize is the greater impact that you have on allowing that company to continue producing to get bigger to make more impact to take on more sustainable raw material suppliers to have more sustainable manufacturers around the world that get such a domino effect. So I think it’s almost like empowering the consumer. Remember how much like, your dollar counts, your vote counts.
Bryn: Yeah. That’s exactly what I was going to say, what Jess said at the end there is that I don’t think sometimes consumers understand the impact that they have. with the choices that they make. And not a lot of companies are are sitting around deciding to become more sustainable because they want to. They’re doing it because that’s what consumer want. Right? And the market follows where the money is. And if people are choosing to buy more sustainable items, then companies will make them. Right? And so there is actually a lot of change that you can create even as an individual as long as everybody’s kind of moving together. And we saw that a lot, in Canada with with food supply, right, organic food. There is a a movement towards organic food. And now every grocery store has an an organic section And I think it’s just starting to take place now with with other industries like the apparel industry where people are being more choiceful and you’re seeing, you know, big brand even, like, H and M take a stance and, you know, recycling their previous materials and trying to use more sustainable materials because they don’t wanna lose people’s money. Right?
Dennis: Yeah. That’s basically just being able to work with the dollars.
Bryn: Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Dennis: Yeah. Awesome. No. Thanks thanks so much, Bryn. Thanks so much, Jess, for for sharing your journey. for sharing everything that you’re doing. Thanks so much for that as well, and all the best and continue all the best with with double as well.
Bryn: Thanks so much, Dennis. it’s been a pleasure.
Dennis: And to everyone else, thanks so much for joining and stay impactful.